S2 EP 20 - Unpacking Neurodivergence: She Blinded Me With Science

What if the behaviors we rush to fix are actually signals from a beautifully organized, differently wired brain? In this episode, we explore new neuroscience showing why attention differences, sensory intensity, and big emotions often appear together—and why that combination makes biological sense. Recent research suggests that thousands of small genetic variations shape overlapping pathways linked to ADHD, autism, and mood regulation, pointing to a more connected “systems view” of the brain.

We also look at how brain networks—like the default mode network and executive control system—affect imagination, focus, and the ability to shift between tasks. That’s why things like the “rabbit hole effect,” zoning out, or struggling to transition between activities happen so often for neurodivergent kids.

Instead of blame, we focus on understanding and practical strategies—visual timers, movement breaks, previews of what’s next, and sensory tools that help kids transition from inner focus to outward tasks. The takeaway: neurodivergent brains aren’t broken—they’re wired with unique strengths and challenges. When we reduce the friction, those strengths have room to shine.

Contact Suzanne Swain:
Email: suzanneswain@gmail.com Website: msmarypoppins.com

Produced By: StellaMix Podcast Productions

Special thanks to our producer, StellaMix podcast productions, another Palm Beach County School of the Arts collaboration. Need a podcast? Connect with Janine Stella ASAP: http://www.Stellamix.com

Transcript

Polygenic Overlap Changes The Story

The Superior Temporal Gyrus Explained

Creativity And The Rabbit Hole Effect

Dreams, Default Mode, And Inner Worlds

Network Switching And Regulation

Nonlinear Development And Late Bloomers

Biomarkers And Personalized Support

Reframing Neurodivergence And Closing

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Well, hello everybody. It's a beautiful day to bust some cognitive distortions and learn a little bit about neuroscience today. So, hi, I'm Suzanne M. Swain, and I'm really, really glad you're here today. I am a child therapist, master middle school teacher, and child sociologist. And we are here to talk today a little bit about brain science. So, this is something that a lot of families and teachers really want to know more about. And to my young folks out there, I think it's important for you to learn about psychoeducation. In other words, learning about how your brain works so that way you can have more self-regulation skills, right? You can learn to control yourself a little bit better and react in a more appropriate way. So today is a science episode. Love science. I was trained as a science teacher, so this is really exciting for me. Can't wait to show you some new information that we've gathered. I've done a lot of research here and can't wait to share it with you. So we're not going with trends, we're no hot takes or anything. Not everyone is neurodivergent now, type of thing. We're not we're not going there. What we are talking about are peer-reviewed research from 2024 and 2025 is actually showing about neurodivergent brains. So because the science has evolved and families deserve to evolve with it. So I think you need to know. It's very important to know as much as possible to help our kids and ourselves. So it's really not one gene, it's hundreds. One of the biggest updates in the past couple of years comes from genetic research, actually. In 2025, in a paper in molecular psychiatry, they looked at something called polygenic overlap, which basically means just instead of one gene causing something like ADHD or autism, researchers looked at thousands of tiny gene variations that interacted together. Well, what'd they find? Pretty cool. There's significant biological overlap between ADHD autism and mood regulation differences. So that doesn't mean they're the same condition. It just means that brain systems involved kind of shared developmental pathways. So when a child seems like a blend of traits, attention differences, sensory intensity, emotional sensitivity, the science now says, well, that makes perfect sense biologically. So it's a systems wiring issue and not a personality flaw. So that's really common, very important stuff. Now, let's talk about something really fascinating. My favorite thing: the superior temporal gyrus. This region is basically involved in your brain where it deals with auditory processing, social nuances, picking up on social cues, things like that, language integration, and multi-sensory pattern detection. That's really important. So what that means is it's the part of your brain that senses patterns. Are you the kind of person that can just look at something and be like, wow, that's not real? Or I just can sense the pattern and you just have a sixth sense about it? Well, you probably have a pretty astute superior temporal gyrus. So in 2024 and 2025, multiple FMRI and EEG studies, including work at the Drexel University and network neuroscience groups, published journals like Neuroimage and Biological Psychology that have shown differences in activation and connectivity patterns in temporal regions among neurodivergent kids. So it's not damage, it's not deficiency, it's different connectivity patterns, once again. So when temporal regions show stronger or differently organized coupling with the default mode network, the system involved in imagination and internal narrative, researchers believe that this may actually contribute to heightened patterns, strong associative thinking with multi-sensory connections, vivid language, and creative ideation. But there's kind of a trade-off. In the same network dynamics, though, it can make it harder to disengage from a thought stream. So the brain that invents an entire fictional universe may struggle to exit the universe when asked to, you know, clean their room. The rabbit hole effect. It's not defiance, it's just network persistence. So sensory dreams and internal worlds and things like that. Well, this is the one families rarely hear about. Recent cognitive neuroscience started examining default mode network activity and REM, so sleep related processing. So published in 2024, developmental neuroscience journals suggested that individuals with stronger sensory integration differences often report they have much more vivid dreams, they have more sensory-rich imagery, more detailed daydream narratives, and so on. Also, more story plot. The same systems that process sound and texture and movement and internal stimulation during the waking hours are active during dreaming. So children with heightened sensory integration patterns may experience things like very immersive inner worlds. You know, that child that kind of zones out, well, they're not really zoning out, they're in a world that they've created that is probably pretty complex. They're not disengaged, they just may be internally simulating at pretty high resolution. This challenge is not imagination, it's switching networks. Imagination is involved in the creation of the world, but it's a way for someone to switch networks and potentially even provide a protective area. So network switching. So modern neuroscience doesn't really talk about single brain areas much anymore. It talks about networks. So default mode network, which is like your internal thoughts, your executive control network, so that's your tasks, and your salience network, which decides what deserves attention when. So in a 2024 review in Nature Reviews Neuroscience, it emphasized that many neurodevelopmental differences involving switching efficiently between these networks is very important. So when switching is slower or less synchronized, you may see things like hyperfocus, deep rabbit holes, difficulty shifting, intense rumination, and again, that's a coordination issue and not a character issue. So it's all in the brain. I mean, development isn't linear, folks. A lot of things aren't. Large NIH-funded longitudinal studies published in 24 in the JMA Psychiatric and Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience show something really important. Executive function does not develop in one universal timeline. In other words, not all learning happens in a line. There are multiple growth curves. Environmental factors, biological factors, so many different things. Some children show delayed executive skills that may surge later in life. Some kids are just late bloomers. Some shift from external hyperactivity to internal restlessness in adolescence. It's pretty common. But this is where learning regulation is extremely important and to model it for them. How do you deal with that yourself? What did you do when you were feeling overwhelmed? So by modeling that, we can help our kids to learn to regulate. There's an old narrative. Don't grow out of it. It's now really being replaced with they may grow along a bit of a different curve, which is much more hopeful. Honestly. So biomarkers and some personalization. The future of support is moving towards personalization, which is great. I love that. It's about a person first, it's about getting to know the human being before we get to know a we want to call disorder, issue, concern. Recent work in the translational psychiatry and NIH-funded EEG studies also were exploring whether certain brainwave patterns predict which ADHD interventions may work best. Or whether resting connectivity produces anxiety vulnerability. Or whether digital phenotyping, passive behavioral data can guide some support. In other words, you know, doing some genetic testing from the family, you might be able to find that you might have a predisposition for one thing or another. We're not diagnosing kids with brain scans or anything, but we're just learning that biology can help to tailor support. How you choose to do that in your own family is up to you. That's progress. Of course, you know, eating healthy, getting plenty of sleep and exercise, I think can do a world of wonder. So, in closing, just a little reflection. My big takeaway out of all this and out of the things that I've been learning is that neurodivergent brains are not broken versions of typical brains. Please don't think this. This is a cognitive distortion. They're just differently organized networks with a totally different filing system, and probably one that's very complex. The same wiring that can produce vivid sensory dreams or detects complex patterns, lots of them. Maybe dive deeply into ideas, create richly textured internal worlds, and maybe also struggle with switching and fatigue more quickly, and they need a little bit of help. And maybe it's hard for them to ask. That's not pathology, it's trade-off biology. Science isn't here to label our kids, it's here to help us understand them. And when we understand the wiring, we respond with wisdom instead of worry. And it's always a beautiful day to bust some cognitive distortions, right? So I want to thank you all for taking the time to listen to us today. And if you want to support the show, please visit our website at www.msmarypoppins.com for information on how you can support the show. Remember, we are ad free and completely nonprofit. So if you'd like to help with our project, head on over to ms.marypoppins.com. Until then, stay clever, little foxes. Have a great day.