S2 EP 30 - SEL Summer Camp Week 3: Oceans of Emotion: Why Middle Schoolers Feel Everything All at Once

Why does your middle schooler seem happy, anxious, excited, embarrassed, frustrated, and overwhelmed—all before dinner?

In Week 3 of our whole family Socioemotional Learning (SEL) Summer Camp series, Suzanne M. Swain, EdS, LMSW, is joined by Jessica Ragnio, MSW, LICSW, Clinical Director at Mightier, to explore the fascinating world of adolescent emotions. Always a good hang with Jessica! 

Together, the duo discuss why emotions become more intense during the middle school years, how identity development, independence, social awareness, and puberty shape emotional experiences, and what neuroscience can teach us about the adolescent brain.

In this episode, you’ll discover:
🌊 Why middle school emotions can feel like an emotional hurricane

🧠 How the adolescent brain develops differently than the adult brain

💜 Why kids often experience multiple emotions at the same time

⚡ How emotional energy and emotional valence help us better understand feelings

🌡️ Why emotions show up in the body before children always have words for them

🎣 How families can build emotional awareness through conversation and play

You’ll also learn why social rejection can genuinely hurt, what cortisol has to do with emotional regulation, and how helping kids recognize body signals can strengthen lifelong emotional intelligence.

🎣 FREE FAMILY ACTIVITY: FISHING FOR FEELINGS

Download this week’s activity here:

https://www.mightier.com/resources/emotional-awareness-activities/

Fishing for Feelings helps families build emotional vocabulary, identify body signals, and create meaningful conversations about emotions in a fun and engaging way.

SPECIAL OFFER: Our friends at Mightier help children build emotional regulation skills through gameplay and biofeedback.

Use coupon code: MARYPOPPINS for 15% off.

Guest:
Jessica Ragnio, MSW, LICSW
Clinical Director, Mightier

Remember:

We don’t stop the waves. We learn how to ride them.

Stop. Regulate. Listen.

Stay clever, little foxes. 💜🦊

A very special thanks to StellaMix productions and Janine Stella for her incredible production work. Please go to stellamix.com for all of your podcasting needs.

Transcript

Welcome To The Ocean Metaphor

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Well hey y'all, it is a beautiful day to bust some cognitive distortions. How's it going? My name is Suzanne M. Swain, EDS LMSW, and I'm your friendly neighborhood middle school Mary Poppins host. And I thank you so much for joining us today. I mean, while I'm a therapist first and foremost, honestly, y'all, I'm a teacher and educator at heart, and everything I do comes through the lens of helping kids and families and schools have a better understanding of one another and to work better together. So I want to welcome you all back to week three of our socio-emotional learning summer camp series with our friends over at Mightier. And we really appreciate their assistance, and we'll talk a lot more about them later. But week one, we discussed why my kid is not a little adult. So we talked a lot about neuroscience and the development of middle schoolers. So definitely check that out. And there are activities attached to that on social media and on msmarypoppins.com. Week two, last week, we were talking tackling the idea of are screens evil or not? And of course, we know that they're not. And if you want to hear more about how to have a more balanced lifestyle with screens in your life, definitely check that one out. But this week we're going to dive into one of my favorite topics, the oceans of emotion. Isn't that lovely? While middle schoolers, you know, they tend to feel everything all at once. So why is that? And we're going to explore that today. Now, before we begin, I feel professionally obligated to make at least one terrible ocean joke. I think it's somewhere in the therapist handbook. So if emotions are like the ocean, middle schoolers are basically emotional surfers during hurricane season. And honestly, some parents are just hanging out on the boogie board hoping for the best. So before we dive in, don't forget to download this week's free family activity that we're going to talk about here in our discussion. It's called Fishing for Feelings, really awesome. And you can find it attached to this episode or on msmarypoppins.com or on our middle school Mary Poppins Facebook page. Look up Suzanne Swain on Facebook and feel free to add me. So you can get it all there. And of course, thank you to our friends at Mighty Ear for partnering with us on our summer camp for the next six weeks. If you'd like to learn more about Mighty Ear and the incredible work that they're doing to help kids, they build emotional regulation skills through gameplay and biofeedback so they wear a heart monitor so it knows when they're getting anxious. And you can use the coupon code Mary Poppins, all as one word, and you can get 15% off. It's super affordable for families and can really help out. I know it from my kid down the street, right?

Why Emotions Intensify In Middle School

SPEAKER_00 2:33

But today I am joined by the amazing and returning guest, Jessica Rina, MSW L-I-C-S-W Clinical Director at Might Ear. Jessica, welcome back to the show. Thanks, Suzanne. Nice to be back. I love this. I'm excited for our episode today. Oh, me too. I'm so excited to have you back. You're so much fun to talk to. So, so why are emotions becoming more complex in middle school? And this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. It's it's really kind of on my mind to come up with a solution here. And one of the reasons I eventually pursued that therapy degree after spending years teaching middle school was because I became honestly pretty fascinated by the emotional complexity of my students themselves. They were just all like little puzzles. And my eighth graders were experiencing so many emotions at once, like friendship, struggles, identity development, anxiety, excitement, their quest for independence, but yet embarrassment, and belonging. And I wanted to better understand what was really happening beneath the surface and the neurobiology of that, how their brains were developing and what was really happening, and what they're capable of in meeting them where they are. So studying counseling, neuroscience, and trauma and a regulation, it really helped me to better understand the middle school perspective. Honestly, it was a great primer for me. And because I mean, honestly, what I realized was that behavior is often just the wave. The real story is usually happening underneath the water. So, Jessica, what's really changing during this stage of development that makes emotions feel so much bigger and more complicated?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah, this is this is great. And there so there are a lot of pieces to dive into. Um Wow, it's like funny how that metaphor works. Well, that's such a metaphor. A lot of pieces to dive into here, and you alluded to a few already. So one is this piece of identity development. So during childhood, right, like if you think about like your we're gonna ignore todd toddlers for now, right? But think of like your elementary school age kid, and their identity is really shaped by like themselves and their family. So we're talking about like what are our routines as a family? What are the expectations put on me by my parents, by my siblings? What are my immediate experiences, right? Like their world is a little smaller, their world has to do with their imaginary play and sort of like what's immediately happening to them, and then that family layer outside of them, right? So we have like two layers, and then they are like that. And they're also developing like higher cognitive capacity, this ability for like complex thought, self-reflection, like all of this is opening up, right? So now it's not just like what is happening in my immediate world, you know, myself, my own brain, my family. You're now aware of all that, and that other people have thoughts, and that there's like this extensive world outside of you. So now you're like, it leads to one piece is about this identity identity piece and like existential questions come up like who am I? What do I value? Where do I belong? This this is big for middle schoolers, right? Where do I belong? What's my group? Where do I fit in? Um, this can be like really exciting, and you see your middle schooler like growing in this at this point, but also you probably see like that internal turmoil, right? Like the uncertainty, the self-doubt, the emotional ups and downs. Because it's like, oh, it's a lot. It's a lot to sort of like process and feel all.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Oh, absolutely. That's got to be really overwhelming, and especially to never really have that before, and then it just comes in like a flood, like a wave. And you have all this realization and self-information.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

And then another piece to this is that middle schoolers are often seeking more independence and autonomy, right? So they want increased responsibility, more privacy, a greater voice in decision making. They want to show their abilities and feel like others see them as capable. And then at the same time, they still need guidance and support from adults. So, like, I remember this stage in my own life, right, when I really believed that my ideas and opinions were correct and I that I knew more than I did, right? I I remember that dynamic between myself and my mom where my desire to like show how much I knew and like that I was like, you know, the expert in something. And I'm using a lot of air quotes here. But against her role in trying to teach me and protect me, right? So like we bumped heads a lot during this time. Um, and so if you are a middle school, I have daughters and they're not here yet, and I truly am like a little worried for this time. And I'm thinking about like, okay, like how how do we what is the right way to like be a supportive parent where you're navigating that tension where you're trying to like support your child, give them that autonomy, give them that that growing independence, but also be there because they still need you, right? And they don't maybe aren't gonna acknowledge that they need you or know that they need you, and they're gonna like fight back a little bit. And so, anyways, the dynamics at this point are really they can be really tricky for good reason.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Sure, and obviously with hormones raging, that can send you from zero to sixty in a second, you know. So the quickest emotion there is anger a lot of times when it's like, you don't understand me, I'm mad now, you know. So it it does make it pretty complicated to try to work out communication, especially from the parents' perspective. And I used to tell my parents when I'd meet with them as a teacher, they're like, How do you, you know, deal with these kids eight hours a day? And I'm like, it's just meeting them where they are, you know, and not having any, you know, preconceived expectations of their behavior and just let it play out as it is and find the root of that behavior. And that's a that's a challenging thing, and it's something that takes a long time, you know, to work on. But and it's not perfect science either. So but I think it's such an important point because I mean adults really forget what it's like to be 12 or 13 sometimes, and that's a big deal because I mean I remember students who could walk into class feeling really confident, and then at lunchtime they're questioning everything about themselves because of one social media post that they did or did not get. And they're not even trying to intentionally be dramatic. We see it that way because we're not in that dramatic state of mind, but they don't see it that way, and they're they're just trying to build an identity, really. So it's a little like trying on different outfits to see what fits, except that they're trying on ideas and friendships and interests and values and beliefs, which is no small task, you know, whatsoever. So, you know, that can be a big deal. So, and then then along with identity development, really comes that growing desire for that independence you were speaking

Social Pressure And Rejection Sensitivity

SPEAKER_00 9:32

of.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

And then also then this social, the social awareness piece, which I you're like for most of us in when we were as adults, right? Adults now, but when we were back in middle school, we didn't have social media, right? Like that was not part of our life. We didn't have, like, yes, we had this cognitive capacity for social awareness, but it was not in our face all the time. You know, even when we, you know, were in school, we're out of school. Like it wasn't there all the time, it wasn't present. Now it is for a lot of our kids. And so, and our kids are more attuned to, you know, at this point developmentally, they're more attuned to social cues, group dynamics, their place among the peers, friendship dynamics are becoming more complex. So, which is like a nice thing that also means like there's conflict, there's misunderstanding, there's like exclusion happening, there are shifting social groups. So there's so it gets so complicated so quickly. And all of it is incredibly significant because this is you, this is your identity forming, and this is your world, right? Your peers are your world. Anyway, so it's so it's so fast and it's so heavy all the time. And then layer on top, this comes along with the social awareness as well, layer on top, that you are now more aware of how others perceive you or or the fact that others have a perception of you, right? Like, this is not something that younger kids think about so much or are very aware of from middle school. And I'm sure all of us can like remember back to maybe you're walking down the hall in middle school and you pass a group of people who start laughing. And like, I mean, I know for me the immediate thought of the truth. The fact of like the absolute fact in my brain would have been they're laughing at me. Oh my god, they're laughing at me. Yep. And I have no idea if they're laughing at me, right? Like, I have no, I can't read these people's minds, but for me, of course they are laughing at me. And you know, then that leads to like I'm probably perseverating on that. My thoughts are spiraling, my mood has totally shifted, I'm feeling insecure, I'm nervous, I'm angry about this, I'm probably gonna end up withdrawing a bit, right? And in the end, it's like I have no idea what those people were thinking or what was actually happening in that situation. But at this middle school age, like you're so sensitive to that, to feeling accepted, like rejection matters so much, like feeling embarrassed and is such, such a big emotion, feeling criticized, all these things. And so the thoughts piece of this is actually something we're gonna I think it's next week, Suzanne, right? That we're gonna dive into the thoughts. Absolutely. We won't go into that, yeah. And that's gonna be a fun episode of how how to help kids understand that they have thoughts and what are cognitive distortions and how do you manage those. So we're gonna do a whole episode on that together. But, anyways, like this piece of how quickly your mood can be impacted by awareness of other people and their possible perceptions, um, is a is a big thing that's happening right now for most followers.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Absolutely. Well, and I, you know, I was thinking back to my own middle school and I went to an art school, so everybody was kind of odd anyway, you know. But of course, you know, I remember being absolutely paranoid over my weight and you know, my hair and my this and my that, and did I have the right, you know, this, that, whatever, just so people didn't notice me. You know, but then as you said, you know, you walk by a group of people and they look at you and the whole rest of your day can be wrecked. But what worries me is that I don't want that kind of worrisome behavior to affect them on the permanent. You know, you can be 40 years old and still hold those things. So, you know, learning how to judge other people and whether they're talking about you is a really hard thing for a middle schooler to do, and you don't really get really good at that until you're a little bit later in life. So it can be a very challenging time, honestly. So, but all of this feels really significant because those peer relationships play such a central role, as we're saying, in that young person's developing sense of self. And that increased awareness of how they perceive us can be sometimes even devastating. And also, you know, kids with neurodivergence, also there. You know, if someone doesn't really have a lot of social skills or is not really aware of social boundaries and things like that, that can make it twice as hard to read. So, you know, the ones who learn social skills quickly tend to do a little bit better, and we want to make everybody have those good social skills. So, you know, but they're paying attention to that social feedback, and that's why last week the Screen's Evil or Not episode might be a good one to listen to in case you're having questions about that screen time and whether it is affecting your child. But I mean, we've all had the middle school moment. We've all been there. You're walking down the hallway, right? The group of kids laugh, and so on. So think about the time for you when that happened, and try to apply that perspective back to your own children who are dealing with this right now. You know, we had slam books. Did you ever have slam books? Do you know what those are? I've heard, I mean, I've heard of I've heard of that, and I've heard of it from movies, but in real life, yeah. Yeah, in middle school, I remember there was a going around, there was a slam book, and a slam book is where they would take notebooks and put people's names on it on each page, and then they pass it around the school and people would write opinions of that person. Can you imagine? So if someone created one of these things, the ripple effect in the entire school was petrifying. You know, and it's stuff like that that as adults nobody does that kind of thing, you know. So, and now with social media, that's almost kind of taken its place. So we just have to have a little bit more grace when we're dealing with our kids. And that's where awareness becomes powerful and that we can be a source of inspiration and comfort for those kids. But here is a very fascinating neuroscience. Fact, research actually has shown that social rejection activates many of the same brain regions associated with physical pain. So when kids tell us that exclusion really hurts, they're actually not exaggerating. It genuinely hurts. And by the way, a little also fun fact: in middle school, the tailbone is fusing. So there's a lot of wiggling involved in middle school because the tailbone already hurts. And that sometimes is the source of where that pain comes from. So I have heard many an eighth grader tell me that their tailbone hurts when actually they're feeling rejection and pain from that. So there you go.

The Brain Under Construction

SPEAKER_00 15:48

But the brain's under construction. So let's connect us to what's happening in the brain because neuroscience really explains this and what families are seeing. So one key fact is that the brain's emotional centers develop more rapidly than the systems responsible for regulation and decision making. The amygdala, remember Amy G Dala, which plays a major role in emotional processing and threat detection, it really becomes super responsive during adolescence. It's like on full alert. But at the same time, the prefrontal cortex, and that's the area involved in your planning and impulse control, perspective taking, and that emotional regulation, is still developing and will continue maturing into the person's 20s, usually about 25. A lot of neurodivergent folks, it takes till 35. And I often describe this as having a powerful engine with that driver that's still learning the road. The emotional system is strong and active and ready to respond, but when the brain's regulation systems are still building and the skills needed to manage those responses are not really consistent, it can be challenging. And during adolescence, the brain goes through one of the largest remodeling projects of a person's life. And those neural pathways are used frequently because you know they become stronger, and while pathways aren't used as often, they kind of disappear. And that's a little like pruning a garden. And the brain is usually always deciding, you know, we're gonna keep this pathway or we use this one a lot, or we don't need this, throw it out. Inside Out had kind of a good idea with that on the way that they filmed it. But it just means that every coping skill, every supportive relationship, and every opportunity to practice regulation helps to build the adult brain. And adolescent brain is one of the most adaptable and creative stages of the human brain development. So creativity is all over the place, but structure is what is usually needed. So so far we talked about why emotions can feel bigger and more complex during the middle school years, but now I'd like to introduce kind of a framework that can help parents and young people better understand what they're feeling.

A Better Map For Emotions

SPEAKER_00 17:45

So, what are some of the misconceptions about emotions that are either good or bad?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, so that so a lot of times there if you think of I don't know if you're if you think of it, like if your child doesn't ever come home with some sort of framework for understanding how they feel, like a daily check-in sort of thing, oftentimes those are plotted along like a line, which kind of suggests that emotions are linear, that like happy, sadness, anger, feeling calm, like all of that exists along along one axis. And then sometimes we also like default to calling the emotions good or bad. So, which, you know, the goal is we want kids to be able to talk about their emotions, understand their emotions, and really be in tune with this and be able to communicate how they feel. But we also want kids to see all of their emotions as signals, as some sort of communication, because like they really are. Your emotions are communicating something very important to you. Now, a a framework that I really like that is really helpful for understanding emotions on a more like in a more nuanced way is thinking of them sort of like in a grid format. One, uh and this grid works in two ways, right? So we're gonna think about emotions in terms of valence, which is kind of a weird word, like I don't know. Like use the word valence in all right. So like valence means like pleasantness, unpleasantness. Like, do we enjoy feeling this emotion? Is it comfortable in our body? And the other is energy. So, how activated is your mind? How activated is your body? Like an emotion can be high, so an emotion can be pleasant or unpleasant. We can enjoy it or not enjoy it, and an emotion can be high energy or low energy. So, let me give you some examples. Okay, so like excitement is not just like a good or bad emotion, right? Excitement is usually a pleasant emotion. We enjoy feeling it, and it has high energy. You feel like alert, you feel like engaged. You might be like moving around a lot. So, like there's a lot going on with excitement.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah, heart rate goes up, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Heart rate goes up, exactly. Versus calm, with a which is also a pleasant emotion that we enjoy feeling, but it's very low energy, right? You're settled, you're relaxed, your heart rate is lower, your muscles are relaxed. And then let's go through a few more. So if we think of anger, anger typically is an unpleasant emotion, but it is high energy, right? Your heart is pounding, your body feels activated, you are ready to respond, just like excitement, right? Like excitement, same thing. Like heart rate's up, like you're like you're moving, you're ready to, you're ready to go. Yeah. Anger kind of sits at that same energy level, but anger is not a pleasant emotion for the most part.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

It's very activating though. It makes you get off your tail and do something, that's for sure. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Um, and then sadness, like is kind of the one we're we're missing from a quadrant here. It was like an unpleasant emotion, similar to anger, but it's a low energy emotion. So just thinking about emotions in terms of these, like how they sit on a grid like this, in terms of energy and pleasantness, can be a really helpful way for talking about them and helping kids like understand how to like pay attention to the emotions in their body, right? Because your body's gonna give you a signal as to how you feel.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Absolutely. Well, and making that little chart, I know with you know my little kids, when I was working with them, obviously we used emotion charts and things like that where they could po point to things and colors. But you know, when it comes to middle school, people don't use that kind of stuff anymore. They just sort of forget about all that. But a grid, like you're suggesting, could be a really easy, you know, you can sketch it on a piece of paper and begin that discussion. So I think that's a really good framework. I like that a lot.

unknown 21:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah, and then and then getting back to this, because you know, we're we're eventually going to get to this little game that we have available that promotes communication, promotes talking with your adolescent about the comp the complex mixed emotions that we might be feeling, but also. So getting understanding what they're telling us. Like, why am I feeling this emotion and what is it communicating to me? Like, I'm feeling anger. I don't enjoy that necessarily, but like I'm feeling angry for a good reason. And it's important for me to pay attention to that anger and understand why I'm feeling angry.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Right. And identify it as purposeful energy, and this is why. And and I I think that's really, really brilliant in the sense of doing that and helping kids be able to label their emotions and reframe them as, you know, is this going to be productive or not? And also lets them know, you know, is this is this worth the battle? You know, pick your battles. And that also can by them stopping and analyzing what their emotions are, they can also make better choices for themselves and self-regulate that way. So that's really smart. I really, really like that. I mean, emotions aren't problems anyway, they're messengers. So I would think instead of asking, you know, how do I get rid of these feelings, we really can ask, what is this feeling you're trying to tell me? And for the kids themselves to say, what is this feeling that I currently have? And maybe it's a mixed emotion, maybe it's not, but to identify it is half the battle. So, I mean, one of my favorite things to tell kids is that two things can be true at the same time. You can be excited and nervous and proud, embarrassed, you can want independence and support. But as abstract thinking starts to develop, kids become increasingly capable of holding multiple emotional perspectives all at the same time. So mixed emotions aren't necessarily a sign of confusion. They're actually evidence of big emotional growth, right? So, I mean, research has identified dozens of emotional states, right? I mean, there's so many different emotions. There's like 400 emotions or something, many of which can occur simultaneously. So if your middle schooler seems like they're feeling everything at once, they, you know, probably are. So most likely.

How The Body Feels Feelings

SPEAKER_00 23:46

But I do think we need to talk about something that families do tend to overlook, though, and that emotions aren't just thoughts, they're actual body experiences. And I want to make a note of that because this is a big part of it, especially for the middle school population. When stress shows up, our bodies release cortisol. And that prepares us to respond to challenge, uncertainty, or threat. It gives you that fight or flight where you can jump up and do amazing things. But many times children experience these emotions in their bodies before they have any words to describe them, especially in the case of some kids who are neurodivergent. They may not be able to describe them, but they definitely have the body feels. They may notice like butterflies in their stomach, racing hearts, sweaty hands, tight shoulders, jaw clenching, you know, the lump in your throat thing or that punch in the stomach feeling. And then when we ask what's wrong, they genuinely kind of don't know. They just say I don't feel good. A lot of times kids with emotional issues go to the nurse because their stomach hurts. So their body knows. I mean, their words just haven't really caught up yet. So, I mean, the nervous system often notices stress before the thinking brain even has words anyway. So sometimes the body receives the email before the brain even opens the attachment. So, you know, for families to think about where do you feel that emotion in your body? And parents should answer this too. And the more communication we do about that, the feels, that really builds that trust. So when I feel anxious, when I feel frustrated, when I feel overwhelmed, and those conversations really help middle schoolers build their emotional awareness so they can identify sometimes multiple emotions at once. So a little fact for you there's a thing called a vagus nerve, and it acts like an information highway between the brain and the body, and it plays an important role in emotional regulation. So when you kind of feel that little zap, like I'm in danger, or something's happening, or a scary movie, you know, sphere and those kind of darker emotions are quicker. But the brain and body plays such a connection that that vagus nerve will activate your body to react before your brain. So next time you watch something scary, it's a good way to test it. You know, see if your body reacts first or your brain does, and give yourself little tests and see. But that's your vagus nerve working. So, Jessica, I am very curious about this game you're talking about that we're attaching this week.

Fishing For Feelings Game Demo

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Fishing for feelings. So tell me, tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, all right. So, one thing about what we do at Mightier is we whatever we're doing, whatever like therapeutic concept we're exploring or like skill we're trying to get uh children to to practice. We we like to wrap it in a metaphor, we like to wrap it in play. We want you actually like practicing the thing, playing with the thing as you're learning it, right? We don't want to just like talk about things and like tell tell you how to do something or how something should be, right? We want kids and adolescents really experiencing something for themselves and like nice and also playing with it, right? We want it to be fun. Yeah, play is all about it. Yeah, all about the play. Yep. So what we have available in connection to this episode is one of our activity activities. This one's actually my honestly, this is probably my favorite activity we we have. It's called our fishing for feelings game, and it's it's a little mix of a craft and a game. So what what you have available here, it's just like a little printable, but you're gonna cut out a little fishing rod and you're gonna cut out some feeling fish. They just have different emotion words written on them, and you're gonna play together. You wanna play. I mean, siblings could play this with each other. Ideally, like you're playing this as a family, and it's it's a way to get everyone, including yourself as a parent, talking about the experience of mixed or complicated emotions. So, what you're gonna do is you're gonna take your little fishing rod and you're gonna hook two feeling fish, or you could hook one feeling fish, you could hook three feeling fish, but let's just say you're gonna hook two of these little feeling fish, read off the emotions that you caught, and then try to think of a time you felt those two emotions at once. And if you'd like, you could actually keep track of points, right? If you can name a time you felt those two emotions at once, you get a point. If you can only name a time you felt one emotion, maybe you get a half point or something like that. And you take turns. So if you as the adult are modeling, I mean, maybe you're learning something for yourself as well, but you're also modeling for your child how to talk about emotions, helping them understand the experience of complicated mixed emotions, and you're encouraging them to also explore this for themselves and just talk about their experiences. So, Suzanne, if you and I were to play right now, okay, and I pretend like you know, you have your little fishing fishing rod and you hook embarrassment and joy. Ooh, two emotions you would not typically ex like think about going together. Can you think of a time you've felt embarrassed and joyful?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Okay, all right. I'm thinking, oh, I got one, okay. Embarrassment and joy. Well, middle school, of course, because that's pretty much where all that lives. I remember I was in a spelling bee and I was such a perfectionist. I was like, I am going to win. And I was like absolutely determined. Then I ended up getting like second place because I messed up on perspective, I believe was the word I messed up. And at the end of it, at the award ceremony, I got like a certificate. You know, I didn't get the trophy or whatever. But I was so excited that I even made it to the top three. That that's what I ended up taking from it, of course. But I was completely embarrassed because I messed up that word and everybody knew it. And I thought everyone in under the sun was gonna be like, oh, perspective, perspective. Like they were just gonna like nag me about that word forever. So I was just like mortified. And but at the same time, like super joyous and happy and excited to go home and be like, look what I got today. And so yeah, I would think that would be a definite mixed emotion. Because I'm I was very almost stifled. Like I didn't know what to do because both emotions at the same time were almost kind of crippling to my you know, kid self. And I had it, it took me a minute. It took me, I remember, like five, ten seconds to kind of re-regulate myself so I could even talk again. I was like, oh my gosh. So okay, so let's see. With you. Okay. So let's see. How about ex let's see what we what we're gonna do? Let's do excitement and give me some help here.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I let's see, if I because we we did prep this a little bit. Yes, we did, and now I went blank.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, well, and I just went blank. But yeah, we talked about this a little bit, but say for me, say for me, I pulled it was gonna be excitement and relief, but then I was like, no, you know what's a little better? Anger. Yes. So do it. A little a little a little to the motions a little more at odds with one another. Um so and I have an example that came to mind for this. So say for me, I I pull anger and relief. And so this would for sure be, you know, there's some sort of like social event that's coming up, right? And I am not looking forward to it. And I am dreading it, whatever it is, and it somehow it gets canceled, but for a reason that's like I'm like, oh, you don't want to go either, you know, like some the reason it gets canceled, I'm angry about, but I didn't want to go anyways, so I'm also relieved. So I have this mix of like, oh, relief feels really good. It's sort of like a calming emotion. I was I was stressed and nervous about this thing, anyways. But also I'm angry because you You could have just done it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. So that's sort of like an example of how we would play the game, right? We would just re-sometimes the emotions are gonna line up a little better. Um, sometimes you really might not be able to think of a time you felt whatever the two emotions are at once. But ideally, also you laugh. Yeah. You know, you're talking about real life things, real meaningful moments, but hopefully you're also just laughing a little bit together as you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

I love that. I think that's really fantastic. And and for teachers, teachers out there, you don't probably get a lot of guidance class, if any at all. So this could be something that you play every day after lunch and let a few different people try it out, and then as a class, you can build your camaraderie there. So this is not just, you know, for families at home having dinner or after dinner activities. This could also be something you're doing in your classroom throughout the day that also helps kids. And I I really like that it's so versatile. That's a real You came up with this, didn't you? This was your idea.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yeah, this well, so this game is this is one we actually share with our mightyer family that's attached, sort of like an activity pack we have. But it's I I I get to work with a game designer who I can take like the therapeutic concept of like, oh, I want kids to explore a couple emotions at once, and then he gets to say, I can make that fun, and we can make that a game.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

So cool. Mighty's amazing. I you know what I love about this activity, especially is it just creates those emotional conversations before we have problems. And we're practicing emotional awareness when everybody's calm, and that's actually really important because if everybody's ramped up, it's it's really not gonna work. And that's where learning sticks, that calmness. And you have to be at peace and relaxed and happy to learn. A happy learner is a learning learner, of course. So it's a lot easier to talk about emotional waves during a family game or in a class than during an emotional tsunami. So, see, I made it all the way to the end and I got in one more little ocean pun or whatever.

Big Takeaways And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 33:30

So, so folks, today the big takeaway from today's episode is really actually quite simple. Middle schoolers' emotions are supposed to be complicated. Let me say it again. Middle school emotions are supposed to be complicated. Kids are developing identity and they're developing their independence, social awareness, and those brains are changing really rapidly. Their bodies are definitely changing, especially if you bought groceries for a middle schooler anytime recently. But their worlds are expanding, and of course, their emotions feel a lot bigger, you know, hormones and stuff. The goal isn't to eliminate emotions, not at all. We don't ever want to do that. The goal is to help children understand them and navigate them and ultimately learn from them. So, thank you so much. Thank you, Jessica. We really, really appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Yeah, this is fun. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Thank you so much. And we just can't thank you enough. We're looking forward to next week when we talk a little bit further about these topics. So definitely look forward to week four of Summer Camp. And don't forget to download your free fishing for feelings activity from msmarypoppins.com. The Middle School Mary Poppins Facebook page, you can look up Suzanne Swain, S-U-Z-A-N-N-E, last name S-W-A-I-N. It's also at gmail.com if you want to send a message, or you can get it directly from this episode as well. You'll see it in the comments. And of course, if you want to learn more about Mightyer and the amazing things they do with emotional regulation and video games and things, please be sure to use the coupon code coupon code Mary Poppins all as one word, and you get 15% off. Obviously, we want to say thank you so much to Jessica Ragno, MSW, L-I-C-SW, Clinical Director at Mightyer, and our friends at Mighty Ear for joining us for this week three of Summer Camp. And we're looking forward to week four. So just remember, folks, we don't stop the waves. Can't stop the waves, y'all, but we learn how to ride them better. Be an emotional surfer. And always stop, regulate, and listen. Thank you, Vanilla Ice. And as always, stay clever, little foxes, and we'll see you next week for week number four of SEL Summer Camp. Take care.